Andy Lyons - Getty Images
5 months ago: INDIANAPOLIS, IN - DECEMBER 18: Pierre Garcon #85 of the Indianapolis Colts runs with the ball during Colts 27-13 win over the Tennessee Titans in the NFL game at Lucas Oil Stadium on December 18, 2011 in Indianapolis, Indiana. (Photo by Andy Lyons/Getty Images)
The Colts hiring Chuck Pagano seems to be viewed as a positive not just by fans but by current Colts players as well. When the rumors hit the web earlier this week that Pagano would get an interview with the Colts, Robert Mathis tweeteed:
Ravens coach Pagano interviews for Colts job..... #iDIGG!!!
— ROBERT MATHIS (@RobertMathis98) January 24, 2012
Now that it's official that Pagano will become the new coach in Indy, that might increase the chances of the Colts re-signing Mathis this offseason.
Colts receiver Pierre Garcon also seems to be high on Pagano, using Facebook to express his feelings on the hiring while, at the same time, weighing in on the future of Peyton Manning:
Garcon hit the point home by posting a picture of the team's 2006 Super Bowl ring... a ring he himself didn't earn because he was not on the Colts roster in 2006. But, whatever. We get his point.
Garcon may want the Colts to keep Manning, but Manning might not want to stay. In recent interviews with Bob Kravitz and Judy Battista of the NY Times, Peyton has described the Colts organization in less-than-flattering terms. It seems obvious that the P.R. power game has begun, and that Manning's tenure in Indianapolis is quickly drawing to a close.
0 recs | 218 comments
Totally surprised we aren’t burning West 56th down right now. Peyton described the building accurately. He also made it clear he wanted to finish his career here.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
I want him to finish his career here.
Ayrshire - January 25, 2012
If he is healthy, I agree.
If not, he should retire. There are too many options open to the Colts. If Peyton wants to stay a Colt, regardless of his pay, he can renegotiate if he becomes a free agent. He can sign a smaller deal that helps bring others back and lighten our cap load. There are options if he is healthy an willing to stay in Indy. I think, if you are genuine about that statement as a franchise players, it can only help to take a cut and make your legacy stronger by putting the team first. He has shown this capability in the past.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
He has all the money he would ever need.
Some kind of compromise should be worked out to allow him to avoid the path of Unitas and Montana. I think playing time is the real issue.
Ayrshire - January 25, 2012
we agree 100% on this, Ayrshire
zherebyonki - January 26, 2012
Also agree...
I hope Manning is willing to make concessions on salary and reps…I think Irsay will keep him if that’s the case
(206)NightRidah - January 26, 2012
I agree!
I agree. If he is NOT cleared or feels in anyway not himself, He should and will retire! But if he is cleared and considers himself healthy I think he will be willing to renegotiate and sign for less. If Peyton feels the team can be competative! Hell it isn’t as if he needs the money other teams will offer! I think IF HEALTHY and does so. Alot will ride on the direction the NEW staff will be looking to take.
shoospa - January 25, 2012
I think he plays next year....
Just not for the colts. No amount of lowering his asking price will put the Colts in the place to make another decade long run in 2 years.
ColtsFanatic07 - January 25, 2012 via mobile
SAME OLD!
So you feel they should go the same old route they have taken the last decade? Put all there hopes in 1 player(I’M assuming you want Luck)? What will that get them when he falters or gets injured? I would like to see them build a well balanced team with an emphasis on defense. Not rely so heavily on 1 player regardless of who it is! I have wanted the Colts to address the QB situation for many years prior to this. I still feel IF HEALTHY, Manning gives the team the best chance to compete while moving forward. Will he be the answer for another decade? NO. But if they build a solid well rounded team with a strong defense over the next couple of years. His departure will be less of a blow to the franchise as a whole. My OPINION is that LUCK is not the answer! A well rounded team is.
shoospa - January 25, 2012
wtf?
so you want a qb but not luck?
you want a well balanced team. ok that makes sense
getting luck makes it impossible to have an unbalanced team?
omahacolt - January 25, 2012
balanced team
omahacolt - January 25, 2012
Yeah because in 4 years you have to pay him a massive contract
Just like you had to do with Peyton…
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
so you want a mediocre QB instead
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
Mediocor?
So I guess what you are saying is Luck is the only QB in this draft that has the capabilty of having a succesful NFL career? Wow, wake up. Look at the league. How many GREAT QB’s are there that have been drafted in later rounds? That is the job of the GM,Scouts and other managment personel to find. There are SEVERAL QB’s in this draft that have the ability to be GREAT NFL QB’s. Draft and sit one to learn the NFL game from a HEALTHY Manning for a couple of years and they will far from mediocor!!!
shoospa - January 25, 2012
Ya gotta pay the good ones
No, what he’s saying is whether you draft Luck, RG3, or some scrub in the sixth round, if they end up being good, you’re going to pay them a ton on their second contract. The only way to get out of paying a QB big money is if they aren’t very good. And actively wishing for a mediocre QB instead of a good/great one for your team is lunacy.
Chris S. - January 26, 2012
DA
The BIG difference is you didn’t waste a #1 overall to get the same result!
shoospa - January 26, 2012
Not mediocre
a good QB. Eli Manning, Matt Schaub, those types of players. They’re good, but they leave room for the defense to be good.
I’m just playing devils advocate. Cutting PM and drafting Luck because you’ll be able to build a better team around him is not a good argument. Odds are you will end up having to pay a lot and you’ll have trouble surrounding Luck with great talent just like Manning.
Mark Olson - January 26, 2012
YES
Yes, I do want a QB other than Luck! Is that so wrong? That pick traded helps build a Defense, Running game, as well as finding a qualified QB and filling multiple NEEDED positions. Will drafting Luck make it unbalanced? NO, but it will set the TEAM back several years in there rebuilding. By the time they have put pieces in place, Luck will be up for that 100 Mil contract and then where will they be?
shoospa - January 25, 2012
Exactly
Mark Olson - January 26, 2012
Well we have 4 years, maybe 5 years
B4 Luck would be expensive, so I understand the arguement. Colt Authority ran the numbers and found out we coudl keep both of them for 2 years b4 what we have to pay Luck becomes hard to manage capwise…Of course by then maybe Peyton is done, or Freeney retires or is traded, so it coudl work
I just dont want Peyton gone for an unproven coolege player, even if hes the next best thing. I would love to take that #1 pick and trade it and build a contender to get Peyton another Super Bowl ring in his last 3 or 4 years
dezznutz1001 - January 28, 2012
Also
he has to think about his family. Just had twins and has to start coaching his boy to take over after Luck
Cwhite916 - January 25, 2012
I like Garcon
just want him to catch everything next year no drops
OBGYNOSUPREME - January 25, 2012
He wasn't on the top droppers list
Ty46 - January 25, 2012
garcon cleaned it up this year
Phillycolt - January 26, 2012
He caught all the trash
Painter threw at him this year
muncie_in_this - January 26, 2012 via Android app
good point
CP was throwing trash want to see him do that again next year then , fewer drops
OBGYNOSUPREME - January 26, 2012
danke
i think we all want to see pierre to continue to improve.
in another 2 years we may not even remember he used to drop passes
muncie_in_this - January 26, 2012
Setting up
Irsay is setting up a nice comfortable environment for Andrew Luck. New GM Grigson has a nice beard, New HC Pagano’s beard is a little white but is quite visible and assumed new starting QB Mr. Luck chose to spend his Stanford career with a patchy beard. Coincidence? I think not..
Jory1111 - January 25, 2012
Luck is a good QB
But what he did with his facial hair doesn’t count as a beard
muncie_in_this - January 26, 2012 via Android app
We need Peyton
We need Peyton to stay….the offensive staff to stay with a tweek if needed o we run the same style we have while Manning has been here……and the rest is all new….total new defense……new special teams coordinator…..same kicker and punter…resign Mathis…Wayne…Saturday may retire…Diem is gone….lets go…..Manning teaches Luck how to play ball for 2 years….and he retires in glory and Luck takes over like Rodgers did in Green Bay but under more smooth and professional terms…..
Colts53 - January 25, 2012
Only if Peyton renegotiates his contract
Hey, I’d love for Peyton to come back here and play 2 years and then pass the torch. But if he does that without renegotiating his contract before March 8, that 2-year-and-done scenario would lead to Peyton retiring and forcing an immediate $22M cap hit on the team.
If Peyton comes back under his current contract (i.e. Colts pick up the option), he’ll have $44M in bonus money to account for against the cap over four years ($11M per year). That means, realistically, he’d have to play at least three years (burning off $33M of the bonus) to avoid wrecking the team financially when hanging it up. And under that scenario, he’d still cost us $11M against the cap in the first year he didn’t play (which ain’t chump change).
I’d love to see Peyton come back, but the team simply can’t afford to pick up that option bonus. Either he renegotiates, or he’s cut.
Chris S. - January 26, 2012
Obvious???
WHAT-EVER!? Brad, seriously dude, you read way to much into things. It’s just like when you said it was obvious there was a rift between Polian and Peyton. Then Peyton talks about the day Polian was fired and how they were joking around in the training room when Bill got called to Jim’s office.
You keep inventing these problems that aren’t there to help your case. Calm down and think. Why have the Colts retained Christensen? The only logical thing that makes sense is because they’re hopeful PM will return.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Rec'd--
I completely agree. Why keep CC? Doesn’t make sense unless you’re holding out hope for PMs return.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
Or unless you’re just not willing to make it official just yet.
Brad is exactly right and has been for some time. Obnoxious, but right. Read and listen to Florio’s stuff from yesterday. He nails the psychology of all this perfectly. Peyton is launching a pre-emptive PR strike so that he comes out as the victim instead of the bad guy, and so that Irsay and Grigson are the bad guys. The bad guys who paid him $26m not to play last year.
willyduer - January 25, 2012
I really think it's a reach
I don’t see it at all.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Thanks Mark.
Florio is a hack. has been a hack. No one listens to that guy when they’re looking for sensical, logical remarks.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
Your saying EXACTLY
What these media types WANT you to think.. I’ve heard this garbage spewed on the 4 letter network and they dont know anything more than we do
dezznutz1001 - January 28, 2012
it is CC that will develop the next QB
zherebyonki - January 26, 2012
god forbid
BLOODontheTRACKS - January 26, 2012
CC sucks reagardless
can get someone much better horrible play calling this year !!!
OBGYNOSUPREME - January 26, 2012
AGRRED!!!
shoospa - January 25, 2012
Sorry Mark...
You’re pretty blind if you still truly believe that Manning will be a Colt next year.
Who knows if a P.R. power game will take place, but Manning basically hinted that he was gone in his recent interview. Kravitz (or the guy who did the interview) walked away from that interview 100% convinced that Manning will try and play football next year….with another team.
What’s the point of bringing Manning back to “mentor” Andrew Luck? Luck doesn’t need it (although it couldn’t hurt, obviously). Manning won’t want to mentor (and he feels strongly that Luck should play right away). The Colts are in COMPLETE re-building mode. New HC, new DC, new ST Coordinator, new Training Staff, new everything – including a QB. Plus, the Colts don’t give Manning the best chance to win another SB in the next few years, not to mention the absolute cap-casualty of having both Manning and Luck on your roster.
Manning’s ties were more than just Indianapolis and Jim Irsay. It was to Bill Polian (gone). It was to Tony Dungy (gone). It was to Jim Caldwell, Manning’s former QB Coach (gone). It was to a lot of the players – Wayne, Saturday – will be gone.
At this point I’d bet my life savings that Manning was playing elsewhere in 2012 (assuming he’s playing at all). And I suggest you’re prepared for that reality.
kmbryant09 - January 25, 2012
I'll take that bet!
So $37.50 says Manning is taking snaps from Saturday next year, both at a discount to allow for the addition of defensive players!
James Busch - January 25, 2012
I'll bet you a year's salary he's not
willyduer - January 25, 2012
Seriously?
I’m 25 and have a very successful career so far, but that is beyond the point.
Fun bet though that (IF MANNING ISN’T RETIRED) Peyton is playing for a team not named the Indianapolis Colts in 2012?
kmbryant09 - January 25, 2012
Did you read the same article?
Peyton is bigger than all of those coaches and he is, above all else, a professional.
I’m not convinced Luck doesn’t need mentoring. He made some poor decisions in his final year at Stanford vs sub-par Pac12 defenses. I think he’s good, but not that good. Everyone needs help their first year. You’re kidding yourself if you think Luck will be as good as Manning. The same analysts that have said he’s the sure-fire #1 have also said that he can’t be expected to be as good as Manning.
Again, don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. Colts fans clearly have a serious case of ‘grass is greener’ syndrome…
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
You sir...
Could not be more wrong about my opinions…
I’ve never once even suggested that Luck will be as good as Manning – no1 will ever be as good as Manning.
I was addressing the point that both Manning and the Colts seem to have moved on from each other. If the entire front-office-overhaul wasn’t enough evidence, Peyton Manning’s recent interview was the final straw, the writing is on the wall. And the whole business/personal bit suggested that on a personal level, Manning would finish his career in Indianapolis….But suggested that this is business, and isn’t personal – which just goes to show that he’s leaving town.
A few weeks, I hoped and prayed that Manning would return to the Colts. I was more optimistic than any Colts fan – I was hellbent on trading the #1 overall pick and re-tooling around Manning. BUT IT’S PAINFULLY OBVIOUS THAT THAT ISN’T HAPPENING. OPEN YOUR EYES AND REALIZE THAT THE COLTS, AS A FRANCHISE, ARE ENTERING A NEW ERA.
kmbryant09 - January 25, 2012
I don't think anybody is denying this "new era" thing
But you seem to forget that Peyton has no control over if he is with the Colts next season or not unless he decides to retire. The power is 100% in Irsay’s hands. Either Irsay says he’s a Colt or says he’s not, and then either way Manning can still retire.
I can understand you seeing why Peyton may not want to be a Colt anymore, but who really knows what Irsay wants?
Sir Sci - January 25, 2012
Point is...
There’s already been discussions. They haven’t had “the talk”, or “the conversation” as Manning pointed out – but anyone who thinks Irsay and Manning haven’t talked about this situation is being foolish.
Why would Irsay want to keep Manning around if he’s starting a new era? That’s the “personal” side of things. Manning made it clear that it’s still a business – and the cold reality of the business is that Manning absolutely does not belong on a team in complete re-building mode, with a brand new GM, Head Coach, Coordinators, and the #1 overall pick sitting on the sideline waiting to replace #18.
And Manning can control his fate. He can tell Irsay that he doesn’t want to be on a team with Andrew Luck. Irsay seems intent to draft Luck – which means he’d have to decline Manning’s option in March.
kmbryant09 - January 26, 2012
Why do you think Luck can't be as good as Manning?
armycolts25 - January 26, 2012
Vice Versa
How do you know he will
dezznutz1001 - January 28, 2012
There is 28 million reasons that Manning won't be a Chief next year.
Money is undefeated in the NFL.
saskwatch - January 25, 2012
we should've hired Ben Franklin as our new coach
everyone wants to play for him
zherebyonki - January 26, 2012
No Kidding...
Peyton Manning expresses his regret at seeing all the coaches losing their jobs, reiterates his desire to remain with the Colts and in Indianapolis, and you infer this is “Manning’s tenure in Indianapolis drawing to a close?” Based on even a rudimentary understanding of the English language, I have to disagree.
The Colts have certainly suffered from some unbelievable coaching decisions, a deficiency they hopefully addressed.
The Colts had some glaring personnel deficiencies, notably the interior D-line and the D-backfield, along with the O-line, caused by what can only be described as lunacy in the front office. They certainly addressed that too.
They had a hole at the QB spot in 2011 because, DUH, Peyton Manning was hurt and didn’t play all year. If he gets back to 100%, not only do they not have a hole there, they have the best possible player in that position. That’s one spot where they’re set! It may be time to bring in a decent backup who can replace Manning when he leaves, because we all know that’s coming within a few years, but…
Try to wrap your head around this concept. If he plays, he plays in Indy. This is not the kind of player you let go while he can still play to his standards. You can talk about Montana and Favre all you want; he’s better than those guys and more valuable to any football team than those guys. Andrew Luck, RG III, Brandon Weeden, hell maybe even Russell Wilson may turn out to be great NFL QBs. None of them will be a suitable replacement for Peyton Manning, because there isn’t one. When he’s done, it won’t just be the end of an era for the Colts.
No rookie QB can complain about not starting when Peyton Manning is on his team. Get real.
The lunacy was vanquished from the front office. Allowing #18 to slip away and play anywhere else, would be an act of lunacy.
I, for one, hope that’s a deficiency that’s been addressed!
nmbr5ml - January 25, 2012
If he does stay in Indy,
Peyton needs to realize that certain things would have to change. He has to compromise. That means he would have to give a certain amount of the practice time snaps to Luck. Also, anytime the Colts get two touchdowns ahead in the second half, Luck should be allowed to play…..or, some other formula, but you get my drift. Peyton needs to find a way to help Luck and divide playing time and practice time fairly…..instead of everything going to Peyton 100%. If Luck does great in the future, it would be like Peyton is extending his legacy through Luck.
Ayrshire - January 25, 2012
Ayrshire...a lot of people here dont want to look at the cap implications...
If they are smart they will sign him to a short term cap friendly deal the day he becomes a FA and spin it as reworking the deal…
I don’t care if Luck has to sit 3 yrs, if he pulls an Eli/Elway they can trade him for RG3s rights..but the necessary balance between talent and the cap can’t handle drafting a QB and paying Manning top dollar. The roster had too many holes…If Peyton wants his money which is his choice I think he will have to go elsewhere…
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
I keep hearing the 'too many holes' argument
Where are these holes? Doesn’t every team have some holes? Didn’t the Patriots, Packers, and Saints end with the 3 worst pass defenses in the league? Weren’t they also the 3 favorites to win the Super Bowl? Didn’t New England struggle to get a consistent pass rush and now they’re PLAYING in the Super Bowl?
I think some of the biggest holes were on the coaching staff. Let’s hope those are fixed. Outside of that, you have the best pass rushing tandem in the league. A very promising and rising DT in Nevis and another DT that has been decent in Mookie. Jerraud Powers is a solid corner and Kevin Thomas and Chris Rucker showed some maturing towards the end of the year. Antoine Bethea is one of the best FS in the league and Bullitt can definitely hold his own if he can return from his injury. Lefeged looked about as good as you can expect from a rookie. Pat Angerer blasted out of the gates and made a statement. Gary Bracket should be back to play SAM or WILL. Phillip Wheeler and Kavell Connor are average at worst. The OLine had some major upgrades before injury. Dallas Clark is a top 5 TE and Tamme has clearly got skill as well. Donal Brown finally had his breakout year and looked like he could be the perfect compliment to Delone Carter (if he can stop fumbling.) Pierre Garcon looked like a pro bowler even with very shaky QB play. Reggie Wayne showed at the end of the season he can still play at an all-world level. Austin Collie went back to where he was, when he had someone who knew how to throw the ball to him.
Only holes I have to say the Colts could use some help in are DT, CB, SS, DE and Backup QB. The only one where there is a serious defficiency is backup QB (which maybe Orlavsky could fill with the way he ended the year.) Drafting so early allows the Colts to build some more around the weaker areas. I could easily see this team making a deep run in the playoffs with a healthy Manning. Especially if what they say is true and the PM we’ve had over the last 3-4 years has only been playing at 90%.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
You must have missed the season
Poor athleticism few playmakers and not much speed particularly on D.
Other than Garçon, Freeney and Mathis…who are both great players but aging and Bethea…no one on this team is a true playmaker. Look at the Colts takeaway numbers on D and 25+ yard plays on O
Angerer is developing to a potential type…maybe Brown will too
Houston and SF both teams on the rise are loaded with young playmakers
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
Houston and SF prove my point more than disprove
They inserted new coaching staff and became immediate contenders. Yes there were additions in the offseason, but the Colts can do the same thing. I think the playmakers are there, but the schemes were poor to say the least.
How do you expect defenders to make plays on defense with the 20yd coyer cushion? Antoine Bethea is one of the fastest DBs in the league. Was the San Francisco, New England, or Houston defenses built around speed? Not really. They were built around smart players teamed with good play calling.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Peace to you sir
Please look at the talent on those teams from an athletic level.
SF literally has 9 studs on D:
Both DEs, NT, FS, SS, CB 3LBs…
If you want to live in the past and assume that players dont age that’s on you bro…
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
I think you can have 9 studs on D with the Colts too
Peace be with you as well
Freeney
Mathis
Bethea
Nevis
Powers
Angerer
Brackett
(Insert drafted DB here)
Bullitt
A lot of players like Rogers and Whitner were not nearly effective on their previous teams. Heck, the 49ers even got rid of a pro bowl corner in Nate Clements. The previous scheme of the 49ers severely limited the defense. New coaching brought in new life. Players age regardless of whether Luck or Peyton QBs.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Not elite
Free and Math are still Bethea too…
The rest are solid players until proven further
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
Now you are changing arguments
First you make it seem like the Colts’ D has nobody with speed, athleticism, or play-making abilities except a very few aging players. Then you say that SF has 9 “studs,” implying the Colts have none of those because there’s only aging players. Olson shows this not to be true, because I think we could all say that Angerer and Nevis are certainly “studs” on defense. You then change your argument to say that they are not “elite” players, but instead just “solid.” If Angerer and Nevis are only “solid” then I’ll take an entire defense of “solid” players, thank you. I think a solid D is better than “oh, we have a couple of elites, but the rest of the D is pathetic.”
Sir Sci - January 25, 2012
Semantics
The D isnt stacked with playmakers…you know this as I assume you watch Colts games…
If you think that Angerer Brackett Powers and Bullitt are studs you should watch the Texans Ravens Niners or Bears play…they are solid players but not elite or close to it…
Angerer and Drake have shown potential but they are not what I would call studs yet…
A stud makes plays that change games…stud DBs get 5-6 picks in a season…stud LBs make huge hits TFLs and force turnovers…Bob Sanders is an example of someone who changed games with TFL’s pics or FF’s…Mathis and Freeney fit this mold…the rest of our guys are not playmakers at that level…many don’t have the physical tools to do so…
Collie and Garçon are studs…they make huge plays at the WR position.
Take the blinders off…The Colts have very little upper tier talent strength or speed on D…
(206)NightRidah - January 26, 2012
Am I really arguing talent on Indy's D?! Look at the stats and numbers over the years...
The D has poor numbers because of poor talent lack of size athleticism and speed. If you are ranked in the bottom 1/4 of the league annually that mean you are not very good…
(206)NightRidah - January 26, 2012
Or that your coaches aren't really good.
Peter Storgaard - January 26, 2012
But we should get a few in this year's draft
will be nice picking 1st or 2nd each round
OBGYNOSUPREME - January 26, 2012
Homerism
Take a look around the league. Just because a player for your team performs well doesn’t mean he’s a stud.
Patrick Willis is a stud. Pat Angerer is not.
Darrelle Revis is a stud. Jerraud Powers is not.
Bullitt a stud? You must be drunk.
2nd round, rookie CB a stud? You’re delusional.
Gary Brackett a stud? WTF are you smoking??
Sorry, but this roster doesn’t have 9 studs combined. Studs are players like Tom Brady, Victor Cruz, Rob Gronkowski, Patrick Willis, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Ray Rice, Hakeem Nicks, Eli Manning, Justin Smith, NaVarro Bowman, Vernon Davis, etc. etc. And all of those players were in the Championship game. Outside of Freeney, Mathis, and Bethea – our entire team doesn’t compare to those kinds of players.
kmbryant09 - January 26, 2012
Many players on the 49ers were not studs this year
but now are. What’s the difference? Coaching… Vernon Davis was not a stud last year. Two years ago yes. NaVarro Bowman was Pat Angerer type last year and the only playmakers the 49ers had were Patrick Willis and Justin Smith. Don’t forget the 49ers went 6-10 last year (with a healthy QB) and they started 0-5.
Don’t underestimate what a new coaching staff can do for players. The same thing could be said for the Texans. Who did they really have beyond Mario Williams?
Mark Olson - January 26, 2012
I understand...
But don’t you think its a bit pre-mature to call players like Powers, Nevis, Angerer, etc. “studs”?
Do they have potential? Yes. As much as Bowman/Willis/Davis/J. Smith? I’m betting not.
And yes, coaching can make a big difference. But the players have to respond to the new coach, learn new schemes, and put in the time and effort to improve. Not to mention that the players discussed (Angerer, Powers, Collie, Nevis, Castanzo, Ijalana, Brown) have had injury problems in the past.
Look at the Patriots: They have STUDS in Tom Brady (QB), Wes Welker (WR), Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez (TE), Logan Mankins (OLine, not to mention 3 or 4 other ProBowl caliber lineman), Vince Wilfork (DL), and Devon McCourty (CB).
And while I like players like Angerer, Nevis, Castonzo, Brown, Bullitt, Collie, Tamme – they are far, FAR away from becoming Wilfork/Mankins/Welker/Gronk/Hernandez.
kmbryant09 - January 26, 2012
its a little early to call
cruz a stud by those same standards
muncie_in_this - January 26, 2012
Why?
He was one of the best Wide Receivers in the NFL over the final 12+ weeks of the season, and has continued in the playoffs.
He absolutely tore up San Fran’s defense, which single-handedly kept the NYG in that game on Sunday. He single-handedly beat the New York Jets in a very important game.
When has J. Powers been a top5 CB for a long stretch of time? Drake Nevis a top10 DT? You could argue that Collie was dominant for 6 or so games before his concussions, but we can all agree that at least SOME of that was from Peyton Manning. As for Victor Cruz, he’s bailed our Eli more so than the other way around.
kmbryant09 - January 26, 2012
At some point,
Cruz is good because of Eli. You just can’t have it one way, saying PM does everything for his WRs, and others don’t. Yes he makes them infinitely better, but if Cruz is catching passes from Tim Tebow he just isn’t a factor. You know? Can’t have it both ways.
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
Point is...
Collie is a solid player, who has a knack for getting open. Give him an average QB, and he’d be an average possession WR – think Brian Hartline. Give him a horrible QB, and we may never have heard about him in the first place. Give him the greatest QB of all time (and keep him healthy), and he could put up top10 numbers.
Cruz clearly is developing into one of the game’s top WR’s. He makes circus catches. He makes HUGE plays (takes a 10 yard pass 99 yards against the Jets). He shows up in big games (end of the regular season, against the 49ers). Eli had his best season of his career, and it just so happened to coincide with Cruz’ emergence. You think that’s a coincidence?
Cruz had 1,500+ receiving yards…and he didn’t really play the first 2 weeks!!!!!! I’ve been forced to watch a lot of the NYG this year (I live in CT), and he is stronger and faster than Collie, is just as good of a route runner, and is one of the league’s best after the catch. He’s a stud. Collie is not.
kmbryant09 - January 27, 2012
Different than Collie though.
Collie is primarily a slot /#2 guy. Cruz is good, no doubt. But to say he’d be a stud catching passes from Matt Moore or another similarly bad QB with less talent at WR is just dumb.
When you’ve got 3 guys who can play like Nicks/Manningham/Cruz, it really makes it hard to defend. Just like Edge/Harrison and Wayne/Collie/Clark.
If he plays on another team, he isn’t showing up as much. Have to consider context.
AnotherWriter - January 28, 2012
There's so much wrong with this...
Again, I don’t mean to be confrontational, BUT….
-Our DLine needs more than just a promising DT and 2 aging pass-rush specialists (IF we can resign Mathis) – and Mookie is not a “decent” DT.
-Jerraud Powers is a decent CB, but he’s probably one of the worst #1 CB’s in the league; he can be a great play-maker, but has been very inconsistent, and hasn’t stayed healthy his entire career. Beyond that? Our CB’s SUCK. Could Kevin Thomas and Chris Rucker turn into solid players? Sure, but every single team in the NFL has a handful of young CB’s on their roster.
-Bullitt can’t stay healthy, and hasn’t been that effective. He was a GREAT backup, and did a great job replacing Bob Sanders for a season. But as a starter, he has not improved like everybody expected. Lefeged looked about as good as you can expect from a rookie? Well, I guess for an undrafted Free Agent. But our secondary struggled to make plays all season. And considering teams NEVER had to throw against us (because they could run, and usually had a big lead), our passing defense was even worse than the numbers suggest.
-Gary Backett should be cut. Old, undersized, injured, overpaid. Buh-bye.
-Philip Wheeler is not “average at worst”. Really?
-Dallas Clark is no longer a top5 TE. Let’s ASSUME he can get healthy, and even return to the form that he hasn’t shown in 2 seasons. Is he better than Antonio Gates, Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Vernon Davis, or JerMichael Finley? Nope.
-Donald Brown and Delone Carter did show some flashes of talent this season, and I really like Brown. But Carter, to this point, is nothing more than a middle-round RB with fumbling problems…That’s not good.
-Garcon had a very good season, but not Pro-Bowl worthy. And Reggie Wayne had what, 2 good games all season? I know he suffered from QB play, but if you’ve watched the games, you’ve noticed that he’s clearly declining because of his age.
I do agree about coaching, however. Our defensive philosophy was our biggest problem during the entire Peyton Manning era. Hopefully Pagano brings about a toughness in this group, and hopefully he can fix our secondary.
But to conclude, Colts have SERIOUS needs at CB (x2), DT, and SS. They have holes (but not glaring) at Interior OLine, RB, and possibly WR/DE (depending on the Wayne/Garcon/Mathis situations). That’s a big deal.
kmbryant09 - January 26, 2012
-Our DLine needs more than just a promising DT and 2 aging pass-rush specialists:
In response to this, I think we have several young DTs who have shown flashes. There is a strong rotation and with added help it could be stable and well fortified.
-Jerraud Powers is a decent CB, but he’s probably one of the worst #1 CB’s in the league; he can be a great play-maker, but has been very inconsistent, and hasn’t stayed healthy his entire career:
True, but you’ve got to give guys room and time to grow. The Cover 2 is clearly stifling players because of the way they were taught to play in it. Not all their fault. Adjusting to a system and playing in one which requires you to play a certain way (ie. the cushion) is not productive for young CBs.
-Bullitt can’t stay healthy, and hasn’t been that effective. He was a GREAT backup, and did a great job replacing Bob Sanders for a season:
Bethea is clearly the better player here, as he stays healthy and is an impact player. However, there are other options. Lefeged was a rookie, lets see what he can do. You can’t have good players unless mediocre ones develop. Going out and buying FAs doesn’t always pay off. You get a guy from someone else’s system, but with the same problems of bad instincts or habits.
-Gary Backett should be cut:
Cutting him doesn’t impact the cap. Why cut a vet, especially with a new coach who might be looking at using him as a leader or in a back-up capacity? Makes sense if he is cut for cap, but he doesn’t save much. You keep him, play him with Angerer and Conner, move them around a bit.
-Philip Wheeler is not "average at worst":
Wheeler is definitely average. He has improved over his career and plays well when blitz packages are called for him. He can fill gaps and stand up runners, but needs to work on his play recognition.
-Dallas Clark is no longer a top 5 TE:
All the guys you’re naming have Elite QBs. When Clark is healthy and has Manning, he is better than half those guys and on par with most. He isn’t as dynamic as them, but he can still do his job, catch passes and require defenses to gear their game plan toward his play.
-Donald Brown and Delone Carter did show some flashes of talent this season, and I really like Brown:
A couple fumbles doesn’t make me cringe from a rookie. They’ll work on it, he’ll be fine. They’re a good one/two punch and I think if you put them in together you can give teams fits with the option of Carter smashing for short yards or Brown as an out-of-the-backfield threat.
-Garcon had a very good season, but not Pro-Bowl worthy. And Reggie Wayne had what, 2 good games all season:
Reggie only dropped a handful of catchable passes all year. He suffered from the QB play. Caught 75 passes for 950+ yards. Still in the top 25 receivers. Additionally, Garcon caught 70/947 at the 26th spot. Granted those stats are not blow-me-away numbers, but markedly better than one would expect. It wasn’t a high profile offense. We won’t argue that. The QB had more to do with this than anything. The previous year, with Manning, Wayne had 111/1355.
I really think we’re going from one statement (the GM/VP was the problem), to another (the coach was the problem), to another more ridiculous one (the players are to blame).
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
Well...
You keep thinking Dallas Clark is a top5 TE at this point in his career.
That Philip Wheeler and Gary Brackett are good LB’s.
That Reggie Wayne isn’t declining.
That Donald Brown and Delone Carter are a great 1-2 punch.
How’d that work out for them this season?
I know this season sucked, and may not be a true indication of this team’s talent level. But I highly, highly, HIGHLY suggest you take a look around the league and learn what constitutes an “above average LB”, a “stud CB”, a SS that “can hold his own”, “a top5 TE”, a “pro-bowl WR”. You will learn a lot. And you will learn that in most cases, our players don’t fill those descriptions. Don’t get me wrong – I think Angerer/Nevis/Garcon/Clark/Brown/Carter/Powers/etc. are solid players. But just because they play for the Colts, doesn’t make a solid player great.
kmbryant09 - January 26, 2012
Dismiss it.
That is what everyone wants to do.
You’re arguing it makes sense to cut Brackett when he could be a valuable back-up to younger players? Or play in a new scheme that uses him better? You’re arguing numbers the most WRs in this can’t do with decent QBs? You’re arguing that Clark isn’t a top 5 TE when healthy?
People get injured and everyone wants to dump them. It isn’t smart business to burn it down just because you’ve got a players with issues. I’ve watched all the games too. Wayne hasn’t hit his wall yet. He doesn’t look like Marvin did late in his career. Still a snappy route runner, etc.
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
Dismiss poor performances?
Addressing Brackett: I do believe cutting him would save a lot of money 2 seasons from now – which means if he’s cut before June 1st, his “total” cap savings will be divided between the next 2 years…which means he would create some cap relief.
Dallas Clark is no long a top5 TE. Was he 5 years ago? Yes. Was he 2 years ago? Probably. But what’s happened since then? He’s gotten hurt twice, and had a HORRIFIC season when healthy in 2011. And not just because of QB play – he ran sloppy routes, developed a bad habit of dropping passes, and really just looked disinterested. Also – as for the TE position around the league: Vernon Davis got his head on straight. Rob Gronkowski arrived. Jimmy Graham arrived. J. Finley arrived. Aaron Hernandez arrived. Anyone calling Dallas Clark a top5 TE in the league RIGHT NOW – needs to get their head checked out.
Sure Reggie Wayne can still be productive, but he’s definitely slowing down. First off, every WR in the NFL declines physically sometime between the age of 30-36. Reggie Wayne will turn 34 next season. He’s also battled leg injuries each of the past 2 seasons. But when’s the last time you’ve seen him burn a CB deep 1 on 1 without a blown coverage? It hasn’t happened in the last 2 years, I can tell you that.
But again, it all stems around biased fans over-valuing their in-house players (sounds like what Bill Polian did with our defensive personnel over the years). I’m not saying I’m the only ‘unbiased fan’, but I got involved with writing around the NFL the past few seasons, and it really opened my eyes to how much we overvalue our own players. Every fan base does it. Heck, Bengals fans will probably argue that Cedric Benson is a top10 RB in the NFL. Powers, Collie, Nevis, D. Brown, D. Carter, P. Wheeler all are, or can be, very solid NFL players. But if that’s the cream of the crop for the Indianapolis Colts, the franchise is in trouble. Powers can be a solid #1 CB. Fans think he is an elite CB. Angerer can be a very solid contributor against the run. Fans think he’s a top5 MLB. D. Brown/D. Carter can compliment each other fairly well. Fans think we have one of the best young RB stables in the league. Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark can still be productive at this point in their careers. Fans think Clark is top5 and Wayne is as good as ever. That’s the difference.
kmbryant09 - January 27, 2012
Just because you write on a blog
doesn’t mean you’re any different or smarter or your opinion is anymore correct than anyone else’s. I don’t really consider Clark catching passes from our 3/4 QBs to be effective.
However, I think he is easily near the top if he is catching from a competent QB. But, you know all. I’m not going to argue because everyone wants to take these players out of the context and look at them. You can’t put them in a vacuum.
AnotherWriter - January 28, 2012
I somewhat disagree
I see no reason why Andrew Luck should be different than any other rookie QB. For one, I think he’s a bit more stable than some of you give him credit for and his ego doesn’t need stroking. Everyone knows Peyton is getting long in the tooth for the NFL, and can only remain so long.
At the same time, I think Luck’s getting too much credit for being “NFL-ready.” I watched all of his games after people started running wild with this “suck 4 Luck” nonsense, and guess what? He’s good! He isn’t the second coming of P. Manning, or Elway, or Marino, or even Jim Kelly. He struggled at times, got fooled by NCAA defensive schemes and threw picks. He ran an extremely run-heavy offense. Extremely run-heavy. Is that how it is in the NFL?
He did show the ability to make good reads at the line. Better than just about any college QB I’ve seen, and certainly better than Curtis Painter could, and he is an excellent candidate to replace Painter. Anything beyond that, we’d have to wait and see. Fortunately we can, because we have Peyton Freaking Manning on our team.
That’s assuming the Colts do indeed pick Luck #1. It’s probably too early to even settle on that conclusion just yet.
nmbr5ml - January 25, 2012
Comparing his talent level
To Painter is equally crazy as comparing him
to Manning
He will likely take lumps as a rookie the Colts will probably be 4-12 5-11ish once he figures things out he should be very good…Of course it’s highly unlikely he will be Elway…however of the Colta build a better team around him he could get more rings…
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
But by the time he is good the team sucks right?
All these pro-bowlers will drop off and when you try to sign young players, you’ll be out of cap room because that will be about the time Luck is commanding his $35M/yr 2nd contract.
Players I’d expect to be gone by the time Luck is in his prime:
Freeney
Mathis
Powers
Bethea
Clark
Garcon & Collie(maybe)
Wayne
Saturday
D Brown
So pretty much any player that is on the Colts roster that has made the pro bowl. Also to be considered is filling the holes the Colts already have (supposedly). Rebuilding is a long, difficult, road.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
That's why there is a draft every season
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
How many drafts to recover 7 pro bowlers?
and other proficient role filling guys? It’s extremely rare. I would say there are probably less than 5 teams that have 7 current and former pro bowlers on their roster. Also, Garcon and Collie are probably pro-bowlers with a good QB and a healthy season.
Rebuilding is REALLY HARD!
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Realistic
The keep Freeney or Math
Bethea Garçon and Collie def stay
Clark Saturday and Wayne are aging and need replaced eventually if not immediately…
Powers and Brown may turn into great players or not thu may be replaced through the draft
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
If you have Peyton
I can see all of them sticking around for 3 more years.
Mathis gushed about the Ravens defense all season. I have a feeling he likes Pagano and might be willing to stay. Wayne is a maybe, but is replaceable. The rest are under contract next year guaranteed.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
????
Why would Powers, Bethea, Garcon & Collie, and D Brown be gone? Are you honestly just saying whatever necessary to prove your argument? There’s honestly no reason any of those guys wouldn’t be on the team in 3 years, they’re all top priorities to be resigned except for Brown (and maybe Garcon).
Coltsfan1345 - January 25, 2012
Look at their ages
JP will be 28 which is reaching up their in years for a CB. He’s most likely on the down hill slide at that point. Bethea is 30 and has already had a decent injury history, Garcon may not be re-signed, Collie has an injury history already and will be 28, Donald Brown will be 28 which is the last year or two for a RB as well.
This is all assuming Luck is comfortable with NFL speed in 3 years. I’ll admit that I thought each of those were a year or 2 older, but keep in mind Bethea is the only one of those that has been to a Pro Bowl, and he is the most likely to be at the end of his career by that point.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Who cares?
Powers and Brown are replaceable
Bethea Garçon and Collie are around for a long time
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
But if you use draft pick to replace them
you can’t use those same picks to replace other players. If you replace them in free agency, you overpay for talent another team didn’t want.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Also,
I’ve seen stats that put JP and Lacey in the bottom ten of CBs in the league. Garcon has issues playing consistently, but when he does is viable. Collie is an injury concern and Brown still hasn’t had a season that I’d say warrants our complete faith.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
All those guys would be in their prime. Assuming they stay healthy, they would all be in their prime in 3 years.
Coltsfan1345 - January 25, 2012
What does prime mean to mediocre talent anyway?
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
Which of those are mediocre?
Are you talking about PFF’s stats? You know they don’t have any coaches tape right? They just watch the game on TV like you and I. You can’t see what’s going on downfield. Powers has proven he’s not mediocre. Collie and Garcon certainly have. Bethea obviously has.
Coltsfan1345 - January 25, 2012
How do you consider
Powers anywhere near an elite CB right now? Not horrible, but still not a top CB. Nor close. Solid, at best.
Brown? Has he proven himself to you? Garcon? Him too? He did something to show you he can play consistently well and stay in games rather than get bored and drop passes on occasion? Collie is the injury concern. Nothing to say about that.
I’m just asking, you’re banking your future on those 5 players improving and becoming “prime” time players?
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
People rarely throw Powers way
and when they do, he often breaks the passes up. He also operated in a very poor pass defensive scheme. The new HC built his reputation on having the top pass defenses in college and pro football. I think he can put Powers in situations to make a difference.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
I'm not arguing his potential,
but to say “All those guys would be in their prime. Assuming they stay healthy, they would all be in their prime in 3 years.” seems ridiculous. Just trying to make the point that this expectation of asking players to sustain a level of play so high for so long is unrealistic.
Not arguing with your point Mark, as I agree, they will play well going forward, but I don’t think you’re looking at players at their best in 3-5 years.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
Where did I say Powers was elite?
He’s not elite. But he’s solid. If you’re not mediocre than doesn’t mean you’re elite. He’s solid.
Brown hasn’t proven himself.
Garcon has proven that he’s a valuable WR to have on the team. He hasn’t proven that he can be the #1 WR yet, be he hasn’t had to with Reggie Wayne.
Collie has proven he’s a top 3 slot receiver in the game when healthy.
I’m not banking on anything. In 3 years, that’s 3 more drafts. And even with Luck, I expect to be picking in the top half of the draft the first two years. This is in addition to guys like Angerer, Nevis, Castonzo, Ijalalna. The team is flawed obviously, but there’s no reason we shouldn’t be an above .500 team in 3 years if Luck is the real deal.
Coltsfan1345 - January 25, 2012
But you're banking on Luck being what he is supposed to be.
The opposing view is that he probably won’t meet expectation, especially following PM. So, if PM is healthy, why not go in for a retool around Manning and use picks to fill positions?
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
I would rather be a Super Bowl contender next year
than shooting for above .500 in 3 years. I would take you one further and say the Colts would probably win the division in 3 years with Luck.
I think the Colts can with the Super Bowl in 2012 with Peyton healthy and a head strong coaching staff. I especially believe this if I’ve been hearing right when they say Peyton hasn’t even been 90% the last few years and he has the potential to be 100% after this surgery.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
colts won't be a sb contender
next year with or without manning..
BLOODontheTRACKS - January 26, 2012
it's rebulding stupid
too many holes….we got exposed last year, we’ll have to cede the top spot to the texans wether Peyton plays or not.
blu shu - January 26, 2012
You said it yourself
Bethea is the only one that you’ve mentioned that has been to a ProBowl.
Honestly, players like Collie/Brown/Powers are all replaceable. You aren’t winning a SB (or even contending for one) with Collie/Brown/Powers as some of your best players.
kmbryant09 - January 26, 2012
and peyton was 3-13 rookie year
and threw a lot of picks but the experience was invaluable
OBGYNOSUPREME - January 26, 2012
LUCK, LUCK,LUCK!
Ayrshire, Are you even aware there are other QB’s in this draft? You are so caught up in the HYPE, you can’t think rationally!
shoospa - January 25, 2012
I'm not thinking rationally?
What a joke. My comment was completely rational. I’m not caught up in any hype. I’m commenting about what Irsay is very probably going to do…..and that’s take Luck. Figure it out.
Ayrshire - January 26, 2012
get a life
Luck has gotten praise from most every scout, and talent evaluator in the league, your saying that we could reach the SB with another QB?
blu shu - January 26, 2012
With any QB.
It isn’t as predicated on QB talent as you might think. Look at SB winners and contenders, not every one is an elite QB. Just isn’t factual that you need someone like that to make an SB run.
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
NEWSFLASH
You don’t need Peyton Manning to win a Super Bowl, which is the objective of the game.
There very well may never be another Peyton Manning. But if Luck is as good as Eli, and we put a good team around him, we’ll be very successful for the next 10 years.
Coltsfan1345 - January 25, 2012
If you knew Luck would be equal to Eli
Would you keep the pick and draft Luck or trade for 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders and surround Peyton now?
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Its funny that you wanna keep a core that is the most underachieving team in NFL history...
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
Curious what you're talking about?
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
Is making the Super Bowl underachieving?
out of the guys I listed, how many were drafted in the first round? Freeney? Umm….
I would say all of them over-achieved if anything. Before Caldwell was fired we said it was the coaching. I think we had the right argument. Didn’t things get imensely better when Murphy took over for Coyer?
First it was the GM, then it was the Coach, now it’s the Players? I’m sooooo confused…
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
One ring with a top 3 QB in NFL history is underachieving....
From 2004-2007 they were by far the best team in the NFL and choked to NE twice and PIT once…
They should have 3 rings minimum
(206)NightRidah - January 26, 2012
no they shouldn't
sd, pitt, ne always had better overall roster talent than the colts…and two of those teams had much better coaching imo
BLOODontheTRACKS - January 26, 2012
Naw
They were better…the 2005 was one of the best I have ever seen they choked to PIT at home after beating them senseless several weeks earlier
The year Manning threw 49 TDs they only scored 3 points at NE…
If you win 12-14 games every year and get bounced frequently at home in the playoffs you have underachieved
(206)NightRidah - January 26, 2012
they didn't choke against pitt
dumbass dungy had the offense sitting around for 3 weeks and they came out and looked stale….just like the packesr did this year.
and the year manning threw 49 was 05. anyway, once i saw the weather conditions in new england i knew the colts, being a dome team, where doomed.
and i never thought they underachieved…i always thought they overachieved in the regular season and just got exposed in the playoffs by teams with superior talent.
BLOODontheTRACKS - January 26, 2012
Agree.
The similaries between this years Packers and the 2005 Colts are unbelievable. And, both teams were dealing with a tragic death in the coaching staff’s families.
Ayrshire - January 26, 2012
The 49 TD season was 04...
You don’t even know what you are talking about from a timeline perspective…
You only think the team was good enough to win one ring…really?!
(206)NightRidah - January 26, 2012 via mobile
oh my god! i was one whole year off
your sport knowledge is clearly greater than mine. and yes i do believe that….just look at the talents bases of the teams the colts had to play in the playoffs. hell, in 09 the jets had more overall talent….and that colts team had no buisness almost going undefeated.
BLOODontheTRACKS - January 26, 2012
needed that home playoff game against the Pats
they lost that when Edge was stopped 4th and 1 at the goal line in reg season,, football a team game,, give Peyton Pats or Pitt D and he has the rings,, and they should have won 2009 SB a better coach would have helped that and bad luck with a one legged Freeney who was a warrior for 1/2 of the game
OBGYNOSUPREME - January 26, 2012
If I knew Luck would be equal to Eli
Then I’m drafting him. Simple as that. The Dolhpins and Broncos are still looking for replacements for Marino and Elway. 49ers are still looking for the next Steve Young or Joe Montana. Luck looks like, at the least, a Carson Palmer or Eli Manning type #1 pick. I guarantee the Patriots struggle to find their replacement for Brady, because not every QB coming out of college is Andrew Luck. When he’s available, you jump at the opportunity, especially when Peyton is 36 and coming off a season where he didn’t play due to a neck injury. There’s no guarantee Peyton won’t decide to hang it up after 1 or 2 more seasons or get hurt or be the same QB. If you could guarantee me that he’d be the same QB he was for 4 healthy years and we could get 3 1st round pick and 2 2nd rounders for the 1st pick, than I’d pull the trigger on that trade. But you just can’t do that.
He’s not going to be Peyton Manning, but hopefully we don’t need him to be.
Coltsfan1345 - January 25, 2012
Wasn't Steve Youn the next Joe Montana?
Didn’t the 49ers use a #1 overall pick on a QB? Aside from Elway, I don’t remember a #1 overall trully living up to all of the hype around them. Don’t say Peyton, because he wasn’t heavily hyped. Even Eli was expected to be a better pro than Peyton.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
That's because the media is stupid...
I’ll let you know right now, Luck will not live up to the hype. But that’s only because the hype is he’s the best QB since Elway and will be as good if not better than Peyton. I don’t think there will ever be a QB like Peyton Manning. How revolutionary he was for the position, how unbelievable he was for so long, how valuable he was to his team. If there’s another one like him, I’m going to need to see it to believe it. Brady and Brees are great, but they’re not on Peyton’s level.
Once again though, we don’t need him to be Peyton Manning (hopefully). Be Eli and we’ll be just fine. I still hope he’ll be better than Eli though.
Coltsfan1345 - January 25, 2012
So you know Luck is going to be bad..wow I bet you make a fortune on the lottery
armycolts25 - January 26, 2012
eli was expected to be better than peyton?
by whom?
BLOODontheTRACKS - January 26, 2012
Exactly. I never heard that.
Ayrshire - January 26, 2012
I very clearly remember arguing this
When Eli was coming out of college, they said he had more of the tools than Peyton. They expected him to be even better than his brother was. He was a gigantic let down around year 3…
Mark Olson - January 26, 2012
And
Cam Newton had a ton of question marks coming out of college. And he just put together the greatest QB season a rookie has ever had.
Scouting/Projecting is an inexact science. Luck could fall anywhere between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning…but his odds of being at or close to PM’s are about 10x higher than most recent QB prospects, including RGIII. He’s not a sure thing, nothing in LIFE is a sure thing except death & taxes (is there a 3rd?). But Luck’s chances of success are pretty damn good,.
kmbryant09 - January 26, 2012
taxes are a social contruct
they are not the same as death. i hate that expression. how about “nothing is for sure except death and not having enough money”?
but yeah his chances are pretty good
muncie_in_this - January 26, 2012
I prefer
“Nothign is sure except death and the Govt stealing our hard earned dollars and wasting it”
dezznutz1001 - January 28, 2012
well
you were arguing a dummy
BLOODontheTRACKS - January 26, 2012
yeah Elis more mobile
like his dad, while peyton, well we know..That was the one thing they kept pointing out that Eli was he more nimble on his feet…
But Peyton is STILL the better overall QB
dezznutz1001 - January 28, 2012
i remember the talking asshats at ESPN said that when he was coming out
not that they’re worth listening to, i just also remember hearing it.
muncie_in_this - January 26, 2012
ENOUGH WITH SPECULATION!!!
Peyton could only reach two SB with better teams then were going to have next year.So we trade Luck for a couple of picks this year, and we are suppost to reach the SB?! there are a couple of factors to consititer. 1.Mannings health 2.we have him for a couple of years 3.we are in rebulding mode.
blu shu - January 26, 2012
When you can spell
and make a consistent, logical arguments, someone will get to you about your concerns.
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
I think Manning stays
If he resigns as a FA for less money…
Otherwise he is gone and that is the minimal risk for the franchise. They can pay him that money if unsure of his ability to play. Fans will not give Irsay a pass if they trade Luck and Manning can’t play…If he is 100% healthy I expect him and Irsay to work out a deal…
But they can’t pay him huge money especially now because they need to bring in some FAs on D. Spending 20-25% of your cap on an aging unhealthy person coming off a 2 win season isn’t wise even if he is the GOAT. I hope they work out a financially viable situation for him to stay for a few years so they can draft Luck but I’m not going to put my faith in Mannings health to hold up for 4-5 years. I have faith in his skill and ability to make th team competitive only if healthy.
We all asked for change and got it. The Colts seem to be building the Luck era with D aggressiveness and power. To have a team an not a one man show you have to spread out your cap money…
I think the Colts will be better sooner than later with Luck…and with two good drafts and a few FAs…By the 2013 season I think the Colts can be an 11-5 team
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
HIGH hopes!
Get real! 11-5 by 2013 with Luck! More like 5-11 at best! Why do you people think he can come in and produce within 2-3 years? The ONLY way the COLTS go 11-5 by 2013 is with Manning leading them!
shoospa - January 25, 2012
:: flashes back to 1998's 3-13 and 1999's 13-3 season ::
Not saying it’ll happen again, but that 1997 team was abysmal and they were a 13-win team after two years of high draft picks.
Luck - January 25, 2012
Flashback!
And who was there QB? Manning! NOT LUCK!!!
shoospa - January 25, 2012
A 23-year-old Manning without any neck issues, and cost ~$10MM against the cap
I sincerely want Manning to stick with this team, but only for my admiration of what he has done for this team. Even if he is cut and re-signs for a smaller contract, he would still cost significantly more than his rookie deal, and wouldn’t exactly have the same long-term potential he had 14 years ago. Keeping him would mean Mathis likely wouldn’t get a new deal, and they’d have to cut ties with Wayne & Brackett and maybe even Saturday/Clark.
With a new young quarterback and some solid draft picks (along with a new coaching regime and GM philosophy), it’s possible for a quick rebuild. Realistic? Maybe not, but it’s a lot less likely by retaining the biggest contract on the books.
Luck - January 26, 2012
I think you're skewed here.
If we keep Manning is could be done and done in a way that allows us to bring back others around him. It is, in fact, more likely that we would keep those players. Mathis’ contract has more to do with Freeney and if he will sign an extension to spread his money out. Wayne will be a function of whether PM is back. If he is and takes less, Wayne will return at a manageable cap deal: I think he understands he his past his prime and he will be back if the money is there to pay him a decent deal. Brackett can go. Doesn’t save much in cap space to let him go, but if he wants out, you can let him leave with Angerer’s emergence. Saturday isn’t a huge deal cap-wise. If he doesn’t retire and Manning is back, he will play as a Colt. Clark is expendable. Tamme is a fine replacement with Eldridge.
If you go with Luck, you blow the team up, get rid of all vets and start building. Get picks, other young players for them, and move forward.
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
Luck
Newsflash! There probably ALL gone if Manning is! Along with others.
shoospa - January 26, 2012
Exactly the point.
Have fun filling 15 starter’s spots with draft picks the next few years. Our Colts will be wandering in NFL exile.
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
A lot of these people are currently under contract...
There would be no reason to move on from the few talented players they have like Bethea, Garçon who I expect to be resigned, Collie, Powers and Angerer…Freeney is under contract and I doubt they don’t give Mathis a good offer…I would think both would like to play in the new scheme…
I’m sure they would bring Reggie back for the right price but not at top dollar. Saturday may retire…Bracket isn’t really needed anymore with Angerers emergence and Bullitt is not elite chronically injured and very replaceable…
How does moving on from Manning equate to blowing out young talent?
(206)NightRidah - January 26, 2012 via mobile
Who cares if they
Get rid of Clark, Brackett! And frankly If they have to choose between Freeney or Math along with not resigning Reggie?
These are aging players who will inevitably hit the wall soon. I’d love to see them resign both Mathis and Freeney but Reggie is a 33 year old WR…you gonna pay him top dollar when history tells you that in 18montha he wont be able to separate anymore?!
You act like Gary Brackett is Ray Lewis! He is very replaceable! Clark had a good career but is oft injured and tall athletic TEs drafted in later rounds are making impacts…so they can draft his replacement as Tamme has proven he can make plays…
You sound like Celtic fan thinking they can squeeze another ring out of KG, Allen and PP.
This is the NFL, you extract as much talent effort as possible form age 22-30 then you move on to younger cheaper players…paying Free into his 30s makes sense because he is a HOF’r. Math is an all pro…and DEs are usually effective longer. But the others are expendable at this point.
(206)NightRidah - January 26, 2012 via mobile
You can predict the future?
Awesome!!!!
Not. You don’t know what’s going to happen. The Colts could EASILY be 11-5 by 2013. Andy Dalton led the Bengals to the playoffs in his rookie season, but I bet you knew that would happen too.
Coltsfan1345 - January 26, 2012
So why the f**k do you think Luck can't be good
armycolts25 - January 26, 2012
Obviously hiring Pagano show the Colts hope to trade the 1st overall
If you’re planning on picking Luck, you’re probably not going to pick up a defensive guy to head up your team and raise the new QB.
Instead it appears Indy will be trading #1 overall to gather picks or veterans who fit the mold of the 3-4 scheme Pagano used in Baltimore. He’s also probably eyeballing Kirkpatrick or Claiborne as he has always had a focus on the secondary.
It’s pretty obvious that Irsay pegged Pagano to finally surround PM with the type of defense that will give Indy the best shot at a Super Bowl.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
See what I did there?
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
I was ready...
To say that you are an idiot. then i got it and realized that you are incredibly funny.
OriolesFan9229 - January 25, 2012
Lol
keep up the good work
BiggRedd - January 26, 2012
Manning went 13-3 year two
I think Luck is pretty good. You may root for him to be a bust but he looks like a potential top 5 QB in the league type of player to me
The difference between me and a lot of other fans is that I don’t think Manning is a God. I also don’t think he is 100%. If he was It would have made sense to say so in the recent interviews. Thinking a 36 year old with Health issues is the best long term plan isn’t sensible to me.
So although I hate to potentially see Manning go…I am a Colts fan first and am glad they have a stud prospect…Luck is coming into a solid offense and hopefully Ijalana/Coatanzo will be the anchors of the OL. With a solid D if Luck is the real
deal they can get to playoff contention in two years…
The whole what if lf Luck gets hurt is funny to me…who is less likely to he hurt a 22 year old or a 36 year old with three neck surgeries? I assume they sign a viable
Backup QB with the cap space saved
Some of you are like Celtics fans at the end of Bird Parrish and McHales careers…
0% of Colts fans wanted to see Manning leave but he got hurt and is a serious injury risk moving forward… if you cheer for the horse it makes sense to regret Mannings exit but to say passing on Luck for him is best when we dont know about his health is not logical…If they had gone 8-8 without him and had SB caliber taken you absolutely keep the guys together and make a run but this isn’t a SB team…
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
I'm not excited about
Unitas-ing PM until we know the state of his health.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
How many 22 year old QBs sat out games hurt before PM ever missed a game because of injury?
I’ll set the over under at 10. How many teams had a QB miss a game because of injury by the time PM missed one? I’ll set the over under on that one at 31. Bet the house.
The type of injury Peyton Manning has does not bear the question of re-injury, it only bears the question of recovery. If he recovers, then he’s much more likely to injure something else opposed to his cervical fusion.
What do the Colts have to gain by openly saying Peyton is 100%? If they act like Peyton is half-there, then teams think the Colts value the #1 overall pick and if they take offers, they will settle for much less.
Too many people comment on how if Peyton is washed up, he could drag our organization down. Let’s not forget other players that were deserted by their organization to go on and be successful. The most recent painful memory is Drew Brees.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Who said he is washed up?!
That would be ridiculous and disrespectful
I said that I wouldn’t place the franchise and lock up the cap on some one with questionable health. I hope they work out a deal at less money and he stays. But they have to draft a QB and they can’t play him those big dollars without knowing…
Drew Brees was in his 20s. What an awful argument
And how do you know his neck/nerves are not at risk for re injury or serious pain when taking hits from 255 pound Linebackers? Are you a Dr?
It ls unfortunate that they have to pull the trigger on this now…
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
I'm not a Dr.,
Wippersnapper - January 25, 2012
but the consensus medical opinion, as I understand it, is that this sort of spinal fusion is less likely to suffer injury than vertebrae that have not been fused. Several NFL players have had the procedure and played long careers afterward, in more physical positions than QB. Re-injury, with regard to the neck, should not be one of the issues driving this discussion.
Wippersnapper - January 25, 2012
joe montana had the surgery
muncie_in_this - January 26, 2012
so did Steve slaton, an NLF running back
And we all know how RB’s dont take any hard hits
dezznutz1001 - January 28, 2012
I'm not a Dr., but studied sports medicine
If he recovers and the nerve regenerates he is not more likely to have a neck/nerve injury than if he never had one in the first place. Let’s not forget that Peyton was cleared for contact in December. The Dr’s aren’t afraid of him taking hits, they’re waiting on the nerve to regenerate.
Drew Brees is a solid argument because with a torn rotator cuff and labrum, there was questions of whether he’d ever be able to pass the ball effectively ever again. And for the sake of your argument, the risk of re-injurying his shoulder is fairly high. The Chargers weren’t willing to take the risk and instead of re-signing him to a new contract, they decided to see what they had in the next best thing.
Age is a number. We’re discussing whether either could be effective or stood/stand a real possibility for reinjury and major future problems. I say the situations aren’t that different and the Chargers might have a Super Bowl if they’d have re-signed him.
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Chargers got Rivers
Worked out pretty well for them.
Coltsfan1345 - January 25, 2012
Oh yeah?
How have they done the past few seasons? Was anyone talking about Rivers in 2011? He even had VJ back. They haven’t been able to do well in the playoffs and he hasn’t been setting records like Brees has. Rivers worked out pretty well, but pretty well doesn’t win Super Bowls. Drew Brees did win a Super Bowl…
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Agreed!
Why go away from something proven to something that might not be the real McCoy. You’re looking at a situation that proves the point. Rivers is good, but no get-the-Chargers-to-the-Super Bowl good. Which is the argument FOR Luck right? That he’d get us to a SB? Hmm, nice argument.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
Yeah, especially since even the real McCoy is average at best
and his team is about to replace him!
Mark Olson - January 25, 2012
Stop
Rivers is not the reason they haven’t won the SB. He’s been a top 5 QB and before last year people were saying he was a top 3 QB in the NFL behind Manning and Brady. He had a bad year last year by his standards though. I bet Rivers ends up with a SB while Brees doesn’t end up with another one, even with that stacked offense.
Coltsfan1345 - January 25, 2012
No, but if that is the case,
can we agree that QBs don’t win Super Bowls? Lets dead that notion right now.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
Of course not
Not by themselves. If that was the cause, Brady couldn’t have (in his own words – “sucked it up”) and still be in the SB right now. Flacco outplayed him.
Coltsfan1345 - January 25, 2012
But there are tons of arguments that a QB makes the team.
Doesn’t work that way. So you can get a mediocre QB and still be okay if it doesn’t work out with your last QB.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
QBs are still the most important position
And good luck winning the SB with a mediocre QB. Just not going to happen.
Coltsfan1345 - January 25, 2012
Has happened.
Look in history. It happens.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
Brad Johnson was the last one
That was a while ago. Doesn’t happen anymore. It’s becoming more and more of a passing game every year.
Coltsfan1345 - January 26, 2012
Flacco and Smith make the conference finals.
Arguably, they both could be playing in the SB. Not what I’d call great QBs by any stretch.
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
not his fault
that his owner hired a mediocre coach in norv turner. if i remember correctly, before brees met up with sean payton he was once benched for doug flutie.
BLOODontheTRACKS - January 26, 2012
LMAO
How did it work out pretty well for the Chagers?
Brees went to NO and won a Super Bowl, the Chargers havent even BEEN to a Super Bowl w/ rivers!
dezznutz1001 - January 28, 2012
Mark, I understand and respect your passion. But facts are facts, man: Peyton is no longer indestructible. He just missed an entire season due to an injury caused by constant wear and tear on his body. The nerves in his throwing arm have yet to fully regenerate. He’ll be 36 next year, entering the late-career phase where players’ bodies are at increased risk of breaking down.
I love the guy, and think he could well bet the GOAT, but he’s still human. Even if he bounces back from this injury (which is not yet a given, until we see him throwing with his old velocity), he’s likely going to end up with some others soon.
Father Time catches up to us all. I’m not saying he’s caught Peyton just yet, but you have to admit, he’s nipping on his heels.
Chris S. - January 26, 2012
I don't disagree
on PM’s age, but this isn’t like any other situation. He takes fewer hits than any QB to play the game. His issues with mobility and speed mean he stays in the pocket and passes, doesn’t risk moving and taking hits.
Age is one thing, but if he returns to form, are you seriously telling me there isn’t a more than good chance he pulls a Farve and plays into his late 30s? If not until he is 40. He has said he would play as long as he had the drive and his body would handle it. Other than this instance, I don’t think he has major issues which would keep him from doing what he wants if he were to come back.
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
That's a big if ...
If he returns to form, then yes, I could certainly see him playing into his late 30s, but that’s a pretty big if right now. And even if he does, there’s no guarantee that he’ll play at the MVP level that we’re used to. I did a little research on this and noted that most modern era Hall of Fame QBs hang it up when they’re 38. Only a few have gone past 38 (Favre, Warren Moon). And all of them showed some fluctuation in their stats at the end of their careers. Sure, they might but up a great season (Favre had arguably his best season at 40!), but they can’t do it consistently.
I think we have to be open to the possibility that we’ve already seen the best of Peyton Manning.
Chris S. - January 26, 2012
You also have to consider
that one guy isn’t the answer. If we chose to pick Luck and move forward in the same way as we have, we’ll be right back here, crippled by the cap, in 4 years with a QB who, if he is great, still can’t carry us to SBs. Right?
I agree there aren’t many who too long into their late 30s, but no one has avoided injury as Manning has. And the injury he has now is not a direct result of a hit or play that caused it. Very different from most injury situations.
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
Don't be afraid of elite QBs
Just because the Colts might draft Luck, that doesn’t mean they’ll be a one-man team. There will be other draft picks this year, and there will be other drafts to add talent.
This fear people have of having an elite QB is irrational, and stupid. Yes, they end up costing your team a lot of money. But if they consistently play at an elite level, they’re worth it!
Step back and take an honest look at the Colts over the last several years, and the picture becomes obvious. The Colts haven’t had cap problems because of Manning — he’s played to the level of his pay (4 MVPS, two Super Bowl trips with one win). The problem the team has with the cap is two-fold:
Elite QBs getting paid a ton of money do not sink teams. They force them to be more discerning with their remaining cap space, to be sure. But no single factor does more to bring a team consistent success than elite QB play.
Or put more simply, I’ll take Peyton Manning or Tom Brady over Joe Flacco and an extra $5M in cap space any day of the week.
Chris S. - January 26, 2012
I'm not arguing that there is a problem with paying them.
My point is that people are playing like Luck is a cheap alternative to Manning. It just isn’t true. No one is afraid of an Elite QB. But, when you already have one, if he is healthy enough to play, why put more money behind another when you could steal draft picks and really stock up in other areas? If we have SO MANY deficiencies, why would the better option be to move on from a a healthy PM and take Luck with all those deficiencies? Get more picks and you multiply the amount you hit on. Play the odds and you can win with a team over the next few years. In that time, you can also make a choice to pick a QB who impresses you and develop them. Elite QBs are not always #1 QBs. In fact, I’d argue the exact opposite, for the majority.
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
But that's not the situation
Right now, the Colts don’t have a healthy QB. And it’s looking more and more likely that he won’t be healthy by March 8, when the decision will have to be made.
But even if he is healthy, you have to weigh letting him go. The contract, if it’s picked up, is designed in such a way that Manning has to play at least three years. If he’s cut, traded or retires before then, his salary cap hit would absolutely gut the team. And even though he’s been phenomenal, are you willing to bet the farm that he’ll continue to be awesome and healthy from 36-38? Even the best start to decline around this age bracket; bodies break down, skills erode. If he plays at anything less than an MVP level for the next three years, he becomes a drag on the team with that high salary.
As well, it’s not just Manning you’re considering. Wayne, Mathis and Saturday all are free agents. Freeney, Mathis, Clark are all up next year. We can’t keep them all, nor should we try to. This generation of Colts are getting old. A rebuild is inevitable. If you’re going to start that process now, do you do it making Manning the centerpiece for a few years? Or do you draft Luck and let him grow with this new generation of Colts?
No one is saying that Luck will be as good as Manning. No one is saying that there won’t be other QBs in other drafts. But if you’re going to start rebuilding, and you’ve got a shot at a great prospect at the most important position on the team, why wouldn’t you take it?
Chris S. - January 26, 2012
Because I don't believe
Manning’s skill will erode. He has only gotten better. What tells you he started to decline?
As for the other guys, you can pick and choose. I think Saturday is thinking about retirement, Wayne and Mathis could be had cheaper than everyone is expecting, especially if Freeney restructures and extends his contract. Clark can go if he can’t stay healthy and be had cheap. No reason to keep him with Tamme and other TEs in the wings.
I’d rather have multiple extra pieces around PM and our future QB, because someone will overpay for Luck. Less about Luck not being Manning, more about the upside of having more picks.
AnotherWriter - January 26, 2012
History tells me
And yes, I admit, its not a perfect guide. But still, to expect Manning to only improve as he enters the twilight of his career, and attempts to come back from an injury that caused him to miss an entire season (one that, at this date, he still hasn’t fully recovered from), is madness. He may be the GOAT, but he’s still human. To keep playing at his usual MVP level over the next few year would be an amazing triumph; to expect him to play better is borderline delusional.
As for the other players: Saturday is likely to retire.Wayne and Mathis will (and should) go to the highest bidder — they’ve been relatively underpaid for their production, and both know this is their last shot at the big bucks. You think Tamme is a suitable replacement for Clark? That’s feasible. How much is Tamme worth, because he’s a free agent this year. If you want to keep him, you’ll have to pony up some cash.
And yes, it would be nice to have some extra picks by dealing the No. 1. And if you do, you’re going to add some complementary pieces. But in a few years, you’re still going to need to find a QB. And while there’s no guarantee that Luck is awesome, there’s also no guarantee that the guy we draft in a few years (when we prolly don’t have the No. 1 pick) is awesome either. What we do know is that it would put the development of the team behind schedule. No position is more important than QB. If you have a good team, but a raw QB, it’s going to take a couple of years to get to the playoffs as you get the QB to mature. If that’s the case, and you know you’re going to make a change soon anyway, why not make the change now and get the new guy on his way, rather than delaying it for a couple of years?
Chris S. - January 27, 2012
History doesn’t always tell you the truth. Manning may well have hit his wall, but I’m willing to bet that, if he has improved from ‘08-’09-‘10 and he was playing at less than 100%, as people seem to believe, that he wouldn’t have a drop off as dramatically as you’d expect. Plus, history has shown that QBs who take more hits, play a tougher game, being to drop off. That isn’t the case. Manning is the exception to that rule in almost every case. He could be again.
I agree, I think Saturday retires, if PM is gone. If not, I think he might come back. But even if he does, okay. That is fine.
Wayne has said he wants to finish in Indy. Has a passion for this city. Makes me believe he’d stay if given a decent enough offer. He is on his downslide, but is still a reliable receiver.
Mathis can be brought back, especially if Freeney restructures and extends. Money can be spread out and placed correctly to get them both back and happy.
Yes, Tamme is a suitable replacement, hence his numbers when Clark went out with that injury a few years back. And you won’t owe him money like you would Clark or a top TE because he hasn’t yet proven he is one. But a good replacement, yes.
I just don’t agree with the timing. If you keep this group together another 3 years and draft smart, you can transition almost seamlessly to another era of good football with only a year or two of down play. I think Manning deserves to dictate the terms, if healthy, on which he leaves the team. And I don’t think anyone would intentionally cripple this team for a payday.
AnotherWriter - January 28, 2012
Agreed!
If he is 100% that’s different…
I still don’t think you can pay someone with a serious injury concern top dollar…
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
BBS, there is only one reason why Clyde would be kept on with all the other changes
and that if the plan is to keep Manning, if he is healthy
JCub3d - January 25, 2012
or clyde is on a european vacation
and refuses to answer the phone cause the know bad news it coming………
BLOODontheTRACKS - January 25, 2012
Wouldn't it be funny if Clyde
pulled a George Costanza and went to work anyway. The Colts new management would lock his office, change the locks, and take away the key to his special bathroom, but Clyde would crawl through the vent and end up in his office anyway. Each day he would just show up.
Ayrshire - January 25, 2012
maybe clyde is just sleeping under his desk....
BLOODontheTRACKS - January 25, 2012
Ya never know!
Ayrshire - January 26, 2012
I think the new coach might want autonomy over choosing his staff, especially OC...
so I wouldn’t necessarily count on Clyde being around, even if the Colts are trying to keep Peyton a viable option.
Wippersnapper - January 25, 2012
did not stop them from canning every other coach
JCub3d - January 25, 2012
There is another
This system is actually good.
Ty46 - January 25, 2012
brad
we just dont know how peyton’s situation w colts will play out. dont think it is a foregone conclusion, as you seem to. time will tell. pagano hire = good move though. seems to have some leadership qualities.
Bluetime - January 25, 2012
So how
likely is it that we will employ a 3-4 defense?
blue31 - January 25, 2012
Not switching anytime soon.
Hybridize, then go 3/4 all the way if you’re inclined.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
i'm more excited now
then at any point during this last season.
andyprocombat - January 25, 2012
Yea im just excited
to know what our defense could possibly be. I know its almost impossible to duplicate the Ravens D but to know we will be lead by their former conductor is just so exciting. Obviously we are defiantly going to get a 315+ true NT. I ready for some player movement and additions for the draft and free agency.
blue31 - January 25, 2012
315lbs.
isn’t really that big. Most NTs are much larger, especially truly good and talented ones.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
yes i know but i said, " 315+ meaning
“+” more than that granit we have never seen one hit our field as of lately
blue31 - January 25, 2012
granit? Come on.
I think Ta’ amu or Poe are the big DTs we need.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
I expect
Them to draft Mark Barron or Chase Minnifield in RD2 and maybe trade back into Round 2 to get Ta’amu…
(206)NightRidah - January 25, 2012
Likely...
I’d agree. Could see them tying to get one of those guys.
AnotherWriter - January 25, 2012
Speaking of aging QBs. What's really wrong with Brady?
It seems to me that his non-throwing shoulder is on its last legs. They (Pats) and us are all on the time is running out wagon. How much longer can Brady keep this up? How much longer can Big Ben continue to get shredded each year. What about Ed Reed? Appears he is kept together with tape and twine.
They are all old. Why should it be any worse with PM? You know what you are getting with PM. Even at less than 100%, the vets like I mentioned above are better than raw rookies. They know the speed, the schemes and the tendencies of teams. That knowledge and experience is invaluable.
Don’t you think Ed Reed more or less knew where Yates was going on that last pass play. It was a great play. Just that Reed was better.
Ask Ray Lewis how it feels to bust his ass on one of the best defensive teams in any era and just have one ring. Or how he and Reed feel about being Hall of Famers and only having one ring between them. That desire burns deep. I want Peyton to have his last shot and have it with US. I am resigned to the fact that he may be gone…..but man….every player in the NFL is all messed up…he wouldn’t be any worse off.
GotDebt - January 26, 2012
Irsay said he would pay Manning his bonus if Peyton were healthy....
Problem is, he will not be fully recovered by March 8th, the date the decision regarding whether or not to pay the option bonus is required. Therefore, Irsay can get out of his previous statement by saying that while he was willing to pay Manning his bonus if he knew that Manning were healthy, the possibility of Peyton eventually making a full recovery, is not worth the amount of money required to wait for this to happen.
Irsay should draft Luck and move forward with building the team around him.
thomasezekiel77 - January 26, 2012
Paying Manning that money unless 100% by March would be a terrible move...
Hopefully he will renegotiate and take a cap friendly deal which gives him more time to get healthy…Then you can draft Luck and let him study under Manning
(206)NightRidah - January 26, 2012
that is a good plan
OBGYNOSUPREME - January 26, 2012
WTF?
I could give two shits what Garcon thinks about anything.
Garcon shouldn’t be getting involved with anything that has to do with this team with the exception of learning to catch the fucking football.
Blue Report - January 26, 2012
hahha so true.
he makes that catch in the super bowl and we win
coltsgolfbeer - January 26, 2012
can't you say the same thing about reggie?
muncie_in_this - January 26, 2012
Any thoughts on this?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/24/colts-manning-can-delay-28-million-option-bonus-payment/
Z.Pain - January 26, 2012
doubt he delays it
why would he? Colts will cut him in march and then technically i think we could stil sign him once he’s healthy but i doubt it would happen
coltsgolfbeer - January 26, 2012
Plus I think the CBA wont’ allow it
CF4L - January 26, 2012
Well it depends
peyton doesnt want to move, hes settled in. he also is freakign loaded, stil doing commericals and he still got paid last year.
I bet, if he really wants to stay, he wouls renegotiate the contract cuz he woudl understand teh positon irsay is in
Irsay HAS to fill the seats next year and he wont if Peyton cant play and Orlovsky is the starter again. He also cant pay him 22 million, or is it 28 next season, if he cant play cuz then it will be a 3-13 season in 2012
dezznutz1001 - January 28, 2012
Which is why I understand if Irsay drafts Luck
i just hate that this is how Peyton may end his career here.
its a total injustice, but life isnt always fair
dezznutz1001 - January 28, 2012
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